Buzz Kemper

Tune in for a masterclass in mastering, mountain climbing, and music making. Buzz’s stories take you from Devil’s Tower to small-town pharmacy to collaborating with Yo-Yo Ma. So whether you’re a budding sound god, a mountain enthusiast, or just someone who loves hilarious stories from someone who’s done it all—this episode will leave you inspired, amused, and maybe a little more willing to climb those metaphorical—and literal—mountains yourself.

Learn More About Buzz Here:

https://buzzkemper.com/

https://www.instagram.com/buzzkemper/

Credits:

Enchantment by Jodie Blackshaw. Performed by the Hobart Wind Symphony conducted by Simon Reade. https://youtu.be/3e8OrSg8h6M?si=jojRar36SnWf0Spt

Badger Talks with Buzz Kemper. https://youtu.be/YRC--RZI4ac?si=NydNVIhnwbHPJV0r

REGISTER NOW:

2027 BEYOND THE NOTE FESTIVALS

https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/festivals/ensembles/kalahari-1

BUILDING BETTER BANDS DAY (MAY 23):

https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education

RISING MUSIC EDUCATOR PROGRAM (MAY 22):

https://www.btnmusicfestival.com/education

FREE MUSIC: 

Wisconsin Arts Celebration Project (Marie Douglas “Yellow Birds”)

https://dp

Transcript

SPEAKER_06 0:08

Hey commuter, welcome back. This is Beyond Artless, the podcast that proves three people with microphones and questionable judgment can in fact start a show. And just a quick note to let you know that registration for the 2027 Beyond the Notes Festival is now open. We have spots still available for middle school choirs, orchestras, and jazz ensembles at the btnmusicfestival.com to learn more. Looking ugly as ever. Man.

SPEAKER_05 0:56

Well, thank you.

SPEAKER_04 0:57

You know just what to say. Yeah, it's that special kind of ugly that you just want to snuggle up to and give it a virus. Oh yeah. Super spreader Phil. So you've had a little uh MBDA gig with the jazz band since we talked last year. I'm telling you, people, I had the best Friday that I've ever had. Uh the only person that was more excited was my dad. Um so not your son. No, no. Grandpa was by far, he was like beside himself. So, commuter, if you didn't know it, uh my son Elliot was playing in the 910 MBDA uh state honor jazz band, and I was fortunate enough to conduct them with him in it. Uh so we had a one-hour sound check, which in which I, you know, ran the band into the ground. I just rehearsed for you know 62 minutes straight. You're a jerk to the brass players in the middle.

SPEAKER_08 1:47

These guys are strong. They came back and played the gig even louder.

SPEAKER_04 1:51

They were good. Um, so but my dad had never really seen me run a big band before in rehearsal. So my dad was super excited to see me work with a group like that. He'd seen me do ban and turmoil cry and that's it. He'd never seen that. And his grandson was playing. My dad was literally sitting almost next to me during both like there, just about four feet away. It was beautiful. It was beautiful. So he was super excited. And I think uh Elliot realized how big a deal it was for dad and grandpa, and he was really understanding about it. Yeah. So that's cool. Bless Elliot. That was that was my pride. I think it was great. And special thanks to Reed Wix and Minneapolis Southwest High School for hosting that event uh in the world.

SPEAKER_05 2:34

And Buffalo High School is doing the choirs, and and uh Montecello did the orchestras, and I think St. John's did the orchestra.

SPEAKER_04 2:42

Doing uh the great work to support those Allstate groups. Man, yeah, it's fabulous.

SPEAKER_06 2:47

And the online uh sessions were great. I went and hopped on a few of them and saw yeah, saw a friend of show, Eric Songer, doing his thing, and uh yeah, and a couple other ones that I was just honestly just like super curious about, and they were fabulous. So congrats again, MMEA, nice work.

SPEAKER_05 3:05

I was also at the South Dakota Bandmasters Whatever Clinic, which is the same days, um, and got to guest conduct with a former students band, um, Isaac McMahon, which was great. And um, yeah, it was nice. Did a Viet Quang piece, Heart on Fire, and it was amazing. He had he didn't speak, all the kids did all the introductions, and he did a CMP project about Heart on Fire and what what Rich turns your heart on fire, and then they all had to do a project around that, and then some kids got to go up and talk about their projects. So, what are you passionate about? Some was family and how they helped their family, some was uh pets and adoption. So they started volunteering at the adoption place for animals, and others were friends in the community, and then how they were choosing to behave as a leader or differently in their friends in the band program and on their sports teams, and it was I I was weeping openly in the backstage just from all of these students, how they were impacted and connected, what they did in music every day. Thank you, Chris Gleason, to to their lives. Well, you worked with Isaac on all of this stuff and he uses it every day with those kids, and it's great. You're amazing, Christopher. I don't care if you like it or not. Edit that out.

SPEAKER_04 4:19

So did you of course you added what you were passionate about, which is more like a lot of people.

SPEAKER_05 4:23

I didn't speak. I'm not passionate about lots of things. I didn't speak, didn't say a word. But I saw a bunch of friends there. It was nice.

SPEAKER_03 4:31

It was nice.

SPEAKER_05 4:32

It was amazing. I didn't speak. I walked up. They the kids introduced the program, the process, everything. They introduced me, said my name wrong, and I walked out and conducted. That's good. Osterlander. And I didn't fall off the stage this time.

SPEAKER_04 4:46

Chris, what'd you do this week? Come on, give us something.

SPEAKER_06 4:49

Yeah, you. Uh let's see. I was out at Bayport High School watching a Eau Claire student teacher today, which was fun. Greta. Shout out to Gregor. Greta. Because I'm sure she's listening to this. Um that was that was good. She did great. She did really, really great. So that was fun. Uh just a ton of stuff. Erica Savano's finishing up a commission that we've got her working on right now. Um Adrian Sims just wrote a piece for Sunprary Schools, and I'm gonna go see him uh tomorrow night because they're gonna do the world premiere on Thursday. We're I'm in Madison tomorrow for a Portuguese graduate meeting. So where is Adrian Sims at? Sun Purry. Sun Purry. So great. Yeah. Yeah. I helped provide a commission for Sunprary schools for they've done so much for beyond the notes and everything. So and then on Friday, aren't you coming up here to do my taxes too? I am coming up to do your taxes on Friday. No, actually, Friday, Petrushka. Oh, that's right. And planning to do Miles. Planning to go. Excellent. Excellent. I will avoid you. Minnesota Orchestra. Minnesota Orchestra. And then we found out that Mickey Roblesky uh is gonna be playing Right of Spring with Chicago Symphony next to Gene Picorney uh coming up. So we got tickets to that also. So Miles and I are gonna head to there to go see Mickey. That's I suppose. But yeah. But you're getting all giddy geeky. Good stuff. It's all about the tuba people. Hey, and speaking of tuba, tonight's guest. Oh my god, not another tuba player. It's not a tuba. Is not another tuba player, but could be. I bet he could be an amazing tuba player because once you hear him, you will, oh, this you're gonna be.

SPEAKER_05 6:27

You're like the zodiac, the year of the rabbit, the year of the dragon. This has been the year of the tuba for beyond our.

SPEAKER_06 6:33

And I'm I'm here to tell you, you will have to be able to do that. It can only get better.

SPEAKER_05 6:36

Yeah, it can only get better.

SPEAKER_06 6:38

This is gonna throw you for such a loop. This is a right curveball, some kind of ball scenario thing. Okay, you ready? Here we go.

SPEAKER_05 6:47

Just keep digging.

SPEAKER_06 6:48

This person has climbed four different routes to the top of Devil's Tower in Wyoming. Wow. This person once sang a duet with the jazz legend, Ben Sidrin, on live radio. Wow. This person got an advanced scuba certification to attend his sister's underwater wedding. I've got you, I got you intrigued now.

SPEAKER_07 7:09

I got it.

SPEAKER_06 7:10

Okay, hang on, here we go. I'm gonna do this in the best announcing voice I possibly can muster. Here it is. Today's guest is someone whose work you've almost certainly experienced, even if you didn't realize it. He's earned endorsements from the legendary Chicago Symphony, collaborated with visionary artists like Roscoe Mitchell, and worked alongside Chuck Leville of the Rolling Stones. At just 19 years old, he became technical director of the national program, a Prairie Home Command Companion, a launching point for a career that would span decades and disciplines. As a recording engineer, producer, and sound designer, he has worked with organizations such as the Madison Opera, the Minnesota Orchestra, and artists including Annie DeFranco, Mary Chapman Carpenter, and Dar Williams. His portfolio even includes a personal letter of praise from cellist Yo-Yo Ma. You too wouldn't know that person, but you should look it up on YouTube. That's a good thing for you. But that's only part of the story. That's right. As a voice actor, his work has been heard in audiobooks, film narrations, and projects from Time Warner, The Onion, Overture Center, Promega, and the Wisconsin DNR. Yes, including the voice of Smokey the Bear. He narrated the international award-winning film Descended and has served as live announcer and MC for American Family Insurance in destinations from Hawaii to Banff to the Bahamas. And when he's not on a microphone or mixing board, you might find him scaling iconic heights like Devil's Tower in Wyoming, Hack Dome in Yosemite National Park, Mount Quandry in Colorado, and Mount St. Helens in Washington. Engineer, producer, voice, climber, storyteller. Today on Beyond Artless, we're honored to welcome the one and only Buzz Kemper.

SPEAKER_03 9:06

Hey. Hi, hello. Good to you. Wow, you make me sound so amazing. You know, I wish I had better lighting. I had the camera covered up, so I didn't realize how poor the lighting was. But thank you for that very generous introduction.

SPEAKER_06 9:20

All true. All true. Now, Peter and and Phil, you probably have you heard have you heard about uh Buzzkemper here?

SPEAKER_05 9:27

No, I haven't. I've heard about the onion. I've heard about Devil's Tower and not a scuba diver.

SPEAKER_04 9:32

But I think I've heard your voice in about a gazillion things.

SPEAKER_03 9:35

That's very yeah, that's probably true. I yeah. And most people have a chance to get sick of my voice between, you know, I do yeah, I do a lot of you know broadcast stuff, but then also if you go to concerts uh by the chamber orchestra or Madison Ballet, I'm the guy telling you to please turn off your cell phone. Please silence your cell phones.

SPEAKER_06 9:57

Yeah, I will overlace some sounds of Buzz speaking here.

SPEAKER_03 10:01

Hello and welcome to the Badger Tox podcast.

SPEAKER_06 10:05

See what I'm doing? Because I can do that post edit. See, that's fancy terminology. Buzz. Um okay, so I met Buzz when I was a young lad, and I was at the old Sumperary High School, and Steve's fiam was was recording his group for the Essential Ellington um competition. And I walked out into the hallway, and here's this gentleman with all the wires running into the hallway. And I'm like, who are you? And he's like, Go away, kid. No, it was great. Then Buzz was teaching me about stuff in the right there. He was explaining, he was such a kind gentleman. And then I had him out to record my group and stuff for the state convention, and then just year after year after year, just getting to know Buzz and just his amount of information that this man knows about so many different things, um, especially about recording, but just about music. He's such a good musician. So, Buzz, it's great to have you on the show.

SPEAKER_03 11:04

Oh, it's terrific to be here uh with you guys. And uh yeah, thank you for inviting me off. Are you in a recording studio right now? I am, although what's funny is I and I love this, but we are I thought, oh, since this is we're taping this a little later in the evening, my studio will be available and I'll be able to do it in the control room. And behind me would be our awesome speakers, and you know, it'd be really cool. But we're there's actually a session in there. So I'm I'm in the lobby outside, which is also why the lighting is poor. But but I I do want you guys, I do want you guys to uh to just be a little bit nervous because overlooking me here is Charles Mingus. You see him up there? Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_04 11:46

We're hoping he doesn't pull a gun on us.

SPEAKER_03 11:48

Yeah, exactly. He he he had a he was known for having a bit of a temper, so yeah.

SPEAKER_06 11:56

How'd you get your start? What did were mom and dad involved in music at all? Like how'd you get going on this?

SPEAKER_03 12:02

No, my my parents actually um I had the loveliest parents. They're both deceased. Um, but um my parents were very uh much uh uh supportive of my career goals. And my dad was a pharmacist and he owned uh a little pharmacy in Elk River, Minnesota. And I know that my mother's dream was that I was going to become a pharmacist and take over the store. And uh I said, you know, I'm sorry, but you know, I really have to do something with music, and and they initi they they immediately, you know, adjusted over to that and went, okay, let's let's do that. You know, what do you want to do? Do you want to go to school? Do you want to, you know, do you is there training you can get? You know, where do we go from here? And uh so I went to a trade school and then I worked for Minnesota Public Radio, and that was the Garrison Keeler era. And then I went, uh then I quit all my work and decided I really wanted to get a university degree. So I quit everything for four years and just uh got my degree and then got back into public radio here in Madison, and people would hire me to do a recording over here and do another recording over there. And pretty soon I was buying equipment and taking out business loans and starting a company, and you know, and now I do this full-time. It's it's wonderful.

SPEAKER_05 13:30

So, Buzz, as an engineer, was that more learning on the job, or was that more some of the work in in your university and trade school stuff?

SPEAKER_03 13:39

It was uh it's it's largely learning on the job, but the university um thing, you know, what what a good professor does is doesn't teach you uh the thing, but rather teaches you how to learn the thing. So that when you're done, you know how to learn and you know how to research and you know how to recognize good research from poor research and uh and you don't, you know, fall for a bunch of stupid stuff. And and I feel like I had that kind of education. It was really, really great. So I did take some um I took some music history lessons because I wanted to learn about classical music and the different the different um eras. And uh I also I ended up becoming a minor in the speech program because this professor named Donna Marie Nudd, who I'm still friends with her uh to this day, but um she was such a great professor that I just kept taking her classes. Um, you know, just couldn't get enough of this stuff. And pretty soon I had a I had a minor.

SPEAKER_05 14:47

I think the idea of teaching learning instead of the thing to learn is why Phil and I aren't very good at our jobs. We don't really do that. Right. I doubt that. I doubt that.

SPEAKER_04 14:56

So I mean, obviously, people uh w want you to work for work for them in a variety of contexts for both your your ears and your voice. Does it just flip back and forth between the two? And you whatever the whatever the phone rings for, that's what you end up doing.

SPEAKER_03 15:10

It's that's kind of the case. Yeah. I'm I'm very, very lucky. I um tomorrow I'm going to um transfer a bunch of files um that I recorded for Madison Opera so that I can start mixing them. And then after that, I've got a meeting about a musical that I'm doing sound design for. And then after that, I'm going to be in a two-hour session uh narrating an audio book. Uh so I'll be on both sides of the glass. And uh and and so I just, yeah. I mean, I'm just I'm just the luckiest human, you know, I can imagine. I just I feel like everything I've set my sights on has has I've been able to work it out.

SPEAKER_04 15:51

Did did they both come naturally, or is there one you had to work harder at, the ears or the voice, or did it all just sort of just sort of happen?

SPEAKER_03 15:59

You know, you work you work hard at everything. Um I can't take credit for my voice. I if I have a voice that people f sound find pleasing, that's that's genetics. Um, I can't take credit for that. Um in terms of learning how to voice act, um, you know, that's a skill that one has to learn. And in terms of engineering and producing, that's a skill that one has to learn. And in your world, um this this'll fit into what what you guys do, um, which by the way, thank you for what you do. Um I very much avoid the word talent when I'm talking about musicians. I tend to say you are accomplished, things like that. Because I don't I don't like the idea that someone thinks you're just born with this. It's like, no, it's thousands of hours of work. And um, and so I'm not offended by the word talent, but I think the word um accomplished uh or or um you know well rehearsed or whatever word you want to use, that kind of thing, I think is more is more accurate and gives credit where credit is due. Yeah, I love that.

SPEAKER_05 17:11

Um can I ask uh I'm gonna ask a quick question about recording and producing. Um do you do both at the same time? Do you prefer to only do one or the other? Uh I I find I I'm not accomplished as an engineer, but when I'm producing and I'm watching the engineer, I it's enthr I'm intrigued and enthralled. But it's a really like two different mindsets going on on that side of the microphone anyway.

SPEAKER_03 17:34

Yeah, it is. Um, and what happens most often with mid to low budget projects is that I'm hired as an engineer, but I end up doing some producing things just because there isn't a producer there. And if it's a if it's a complex classical music thing, I will tell the artist I am not going to pick out if you played if you played an F, but it should have been a C. I mean, if it's not completely foreign note to the key, I'm not gonna catch it. So you're gonna want to have somebody with that kind of ear. But um, but I'm you know, I in engineering something, I very often found myself saying, you know, um, yeah, let's just let that was that was great. Let's do that, do that vocal again. Can you try it a little? Can you sing it with a smile on your face? Try that. You know, so you do producing things and um and it's um yeah, it's very gratifying. Other times you actually have the title um of producer or engineer or whatever it might be. And uh and I'm I'm I'm comfortable with either hat.

SPEAKER_06 18:45

Is it hard to keep up with the technology with everything? I mean, I can only imagine when did audio for the arts, when did that start?

SPEAKER_03 18:52

It had a very soft start, um, to use a theater term. Um it it sort of rolled slowly into being at around 1995. Um, and it was literally just the spare bedroom of a house I was living in. And um, and it and then it grew, you know, it's like, oh, I'll buy another microphone, I'll buy this, I'll buy that, and uh and it got to the point where I was working like 70 hours a week because I had a full-time job at Wisconsin Public Radio. So I thought, well, something's gotta give. And because I'm right, because I'm a genius, I'm gonna give up the job with a reliable paycheck and a healthcare plan. And I'm gonna jump, I'm gonna jump into the pool blindfolded and just hope that there's water in there, you know. And and there is.

SPEAKER_06 19:38

So over those years, how has sorry, Phil, I I keep stepping on you. Um yeah, that that's a term meaning that you started talking. Okay, anyway. Okay. How over since 90s, since the 90s, I mean, it it's changed massively or hasn't it? Is it still a a good microphone, still a good microphone? It doesn't matter all the AI crap. It's like you still gotta have a good microphone.

SPEAKER_03 20:00

Correct. Yeah, microphones don't ch well, they change, but they don't they they don't really evolve in the way that you know, um like a computer does. Um we have microphones that were built last year, and we have microphones that were built in the 60s. And I'll use either one of them, you know, um on a project. They, you know, yeah, good good sound is good sound. As Duke Ellington said, if it sounds good, it is good. Uh but um but the computer technology has changed radically and and it's very convenient, but I have to say, I if I can um if I if I can if I can complain a little bit about something, there is so much technology now to correct mistakes that uh we now occasionally see musicians who don't think that the ability to play their parts correctly is all that important. It can all be fixed. And uh and and that that concerns me a little bit. I not so accomplished, huh? Well, some of them some of them, yeah, some of them are, some aren't, some of are accomplished in a way, but they haven't spent enough time learning the material for this project they're working on right now. But the attitude, and this is a very, very small minority of people, you know, with whom I, you know, cross paths, but but there is a certain amount of, well, you can just fix that. And uh and that that I find sad.

SPEAKER_04 21:36

I hate to bring you all the way back full circle to Minnesota, but I I just have to hear a little bit about Prairie Home and Garrison. Yeah. I mean, he's notorious for like last minute changing everything. Yeah. So I'm wondering, like, how in the world you survived that period of time.

SPEAKER_03 21:52

I I was I was 19. So first of all, I I'm one of the people that you are gonna find who will not say a negative word. About Garrison. There are people who worked with him who did not like the experience and do not like him. He gave me an opportunity when I was 19 years old, maybe I had just turned 20, I was the lowest man on his program. And to slightly correct your intro, uh Chris, it was at that point a statewide program. I did engineer the very first national broadcast, but when I took over as technical director, it was still just a statewide show. But I was the youngest and least experienced guy on his crew, and he asked me if I wanted to be the technical director. And so all of a sudden, I became all these people who were my boss, I became their boss, and they were all very nice about it. And and uh Garrison just, you know, believed in me and um and you know, let me kind of have at it and figure it out. But yeah, it it's chaotic. Um there's you know, this band is gonna come on as a four-piece. Um, okay, so I'm prepared for that. And then for their last song, they decide the first band, which was a trio, is gonna join them. And now I've got a seven-piece that I wasn't expecting and didn't sound check. And um and it's live make it work. It's live radio. So the yeah, so as I told one of my colleagues at the time, I said the biggest lesson in working in this type of environment is the lesson that panicking never makes it better. So just uh just just roll with it, you know, and do what you can. And no, it's not gonna sound perfect, but it's gonna, we're gonna get a show on the radio that's gonna be really, really enjoyable. And we did that.

SPEAKER_05 23:43

So you do, I mean, there you did. Have you done live sound besides that, or do you stick mostly to the recording side?

SPEAKER_03 23:50

It's mostly recording, but we do a lot of live streaming stuff. We got through the pandemic by buying video gear. Um, I happened to see a um, there's a folk artist named Ellis Paul. My nephew is a big fan, and he my nephew told me, Oh, Ellis Paul, this was this was just as the pandemic was hitting big. And my nephew said, Oh, Ellis Paul made a little video in his living room. You should check it out. It's kind of fun. So he did this little video in his living room, and he said, you know, hey, I can't play in front of people right now, so here's what I'm gonna be doing. Um, you know, if you can, send me five bucks. And two, three days later, we had a staff meeting, and I said, Here's what we're gonna do. We're going to buy, I know we've got no money coming in and no gigs on the calendar. We're gonna buy 12 grand worth of audio, I'm sorry, video gear. And this is how this is how artists and audiences are gonna connect. And our second contract paid for all the gear. So it was, yeah, so we really lucked out. Yeah, I make a lot of bad decisions, but that was one of the better ones. And um so we are now kind of a multimedia company. And my young employees, who are brilliant, uh, mostly women, by the way. We have four women and two men at the at the brilliant than we are. Look at this. They are, they are and they went from, and it was partly thanks to my friend Bruce Johnson, who taught them a lot, but they went from looking at a camera and saying, How do you turn this on, to being really good camera operators in like three, four weeks. And yeah, it's it's amazing. That's awesome. Yeah.

SPEAKER_04 25:31

So I mean, uh the the idea of being a uh, you know, venture capitalist with recording and freelancing and uh being a voice actor wasn't sort of uh enough of a thrill-seeking, uh uh dangerous gig for you. You have to go ahead and climb mountains too. Yeah, right.

SPEAKER_08 25:48

What what and scuba dive.

SPEAKER_03 25:50

And scuba dive. Yeah. Yeah, I don't do the I don't do that much scuba diving anymore. I did the scuba thing because my sister got married in an underwater cave in Waynesville, Missouri, and she gave me the sister doe eyes and said, I really would like it if you'd come in the water and you know, be I said, I'm gonna have to be on shore. That's like advanced scuba certification. Oh, I'd really like it if you'd go in the water. I'm like, okay, fine. So I had to get advanced certification. The climbing is is a much simpler explanation. You will all understand it. I was in love with a rock climber, and she wanted me to climb with her. And what stupid thing will we not do for love? Come on. But four different routes to the top of Devil's Tower? Yeah, not at the same time. But um I did two one day one.

SPEAKER_08 26:40

That's still like four more than Peter's gonna do. Four more than I'm gonna do.

SPEAKER_03 26:47

Yeah, it's a thousand vertical feet, and and it's a it's a cool thing because when you get to the top of a mountain, you're on basically what's like a tabletop, right? You you can stand there and you know take a picture and you gotta get down because you can't breathe. The top of Devil's Tower is about the size of a football field. So you can you can hang out up there, you can have a picnic. Uh, but it it it was just it's it's it's a terrific sport. It involves a lot of um a lot of trust, obviously. And um, and and here's an example of that. This this actually made me a little teary-eyed when it happened. But there's uh there was a young woman climbing Devil's Tower at the same time I was, but she was in a different party. And um, and the guide she had hired was being inappropriate, a little creepy. And she walked over to me and said, Can I just climb with you? I would trust you. And I said, Yeah, yeah, I'll climb with you. And so, you know, together we did this route that's rated a 10B, which I never thought I could I could do. But I just thought, you know, this is, you know, trust on so many levels. I mean, first of all, she trusts me not to be creepy, but she's also trusting me with her life because I've got the other end of the rope. And if she falls, I'm it, you know. And so it was, and I felt the same way about her. It's like, yeah, we've known each other 20 seconds, and I'm gonna trust you with my life. It's it's yeah, it's an amazing thing. It's beautiful sport.

SPEAKER_06 28:17

I don't know if I could say that about Phil.

SPEAKER_04 28:19

I've known him for a while.

SPEAKER_03 28:20

20 seconds the way I I doubt if I doubt if Phil would.

SPEAKER_04 28:24

I'd I don't even want to get in a car with Chris.

SPEAKER_05 28:26

I trust Phil. I'd trust you too. I wouldn't actually ride climb with you, but I would trust you. Okay, there you go.

SPEAKER_06 28:33

I just want you to notice that I have a I have a camera person here too. So it follows me. Okay, hey, back to some other uh technical things here. What's one of the biggest mistakes that music teachers make when they try to do their own recordings?

SPEAKER_03 28:48

Well, that's a great question. Yeah, that is a really great question. Um I don't know if I can point to one thing. Five. Okay, five. The wrong microphones. Yeah, I mean don't hire you. Yeah, right. They don't hire. No, I mean it's it's it's mainly a matter of just listening. Sometimes people um just intuitively place a mic too close or too far, or you know, get um, you know, get additional noise. Um a real common thing I've noticed when I record choral groups is I've had many choral directors tell me, you're putting your mics, you're putting your mics too close. They need to be, they need to be way farther away, or you're gonna pick out individual voices. And I tell them, you know, A, like we're in a church and there's gonna be a lot of sound bouncing around. And if I put that mic 20 feet back, it's going to sound like they're singing in a well, you know, and you know, microphones don't react the way the way ears do. So I don't know if I could really point out specific mistakes, but the thing I will say is that it's like everything in life, you gotta get it right at way upstream because fixing it later. I've had so many people do projects where they say, I I did this on the cheap. Can you fix it? And I say yes, and it's gonna cost you more than if you'd done it right in the first place. It's just no, it's yeah.

SPEAKER_06 30:16

That's so uh let me flip that then. Have you done recordings where it doesn't need a lot of post-editing? Like everything's set up or the group is is that good. I mean, does that does that work that way sometimes?

SPEAKER_03 30:28

Yeah, yeah. Yeah, especially with jazz. I mean, you mentioned Roscoe Mitchell in my um in in your introduction of me, um, your very kind introduction. Um, he's a founding member of the Art Ensemble of Chicago, and um he's in his 80s now. Um, we've been friends for decades. I've been his re recording engineer for decades. He is one of the most honest musicians I've ever worked with. And I remember we did a piece called Song for My Sister, which is a piece he literally wrote for his sister. And um it's a it's a it's a beautiful piece. A lot of Roscoe's stuff is very avant-garde and hard on the ear, but this is a very melodic, beautiful piece. He was playing um a duet opening, he was playing uh alto sax, and he was playing a duet opening with Corey Wilkes, who was playing trumpet, and Corey had the melody, and then Roscoe was playing this harmony line along with it. And Corey, just brilliant player, but you know, he's human. He got goofed up and he's and he started to play, he started to play the wrong part of the head out, and so he played like one or two notes, he stopped, waited until the the that part cycled through, and then on the second time he jumped in and he played it perfectly. And so I said to Roscoe, I said, you know, I'll have Corey come in tomorrow morning and we can we can punch in that part that he missed, because it's just a few bars, you know, and uh and Roscoe, Roscoe in his in his beautiful mellow way, he goes, Buzz, man, leave it. That's how we played it. And it's on the record that way. And I think, good for you, man, you know, yeah. And now a message from our sponsors.

SPEAKER_04 32:15

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SPEAKER_06 32:31

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SPEAKER_05 32:45

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SPEAKER_06 33:13

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SPEAKER_05 33:24

So I just want to say something just for for everybody that may not know. So uh when when Buzz or other professionals are recording, they're in a room where they can't hear anything except what comes through the microphones, right? So the engineer not only knows microphones and placement and all that and and uh reverb and isolation, blah, blah, blah, but then they'll turn on and off different microphones just to get that bass drum mic just right or that that solo mic just right in all of its settings, and they turn different things on and off. And I've done it mostly with orchestras, um, some chamber music, uh live jazz, but it's amazing because when I'm I'm in another room and this engineer is like literally making the sound of the orchestra happen, right? Because it's their ears that are adjusting to make the strings sound this way or the woodwinds sound that way. And when it comes together, it's so amazing to hear that gift. Um producing's actually more psychological than than musical. I mean, it is musical too, but um, it's more psychological. But the engineer's ears, it's not just knowing about the technical stuff, it's about how to build the sound of a big band, how to build the sound of a Garrison Keeler live show. So there's, you know, this doesn't bleed and all that stuff. It's so amazing. It's such a different skill set, um, but totally musical. Because otherwise your orchestra sounds like a choir or your choir sounds like a, you know, I don't know. So it's really cool. Right.

SPEAKER_06 34:56

If you ever get a chance to watch somebody, it's pretty he does that a lot where he'll just ramble like that. I'm gonna turn it into a question. So, how can students, kids that are interested in this line of work, help to develop their ears or even get involved?

SPEAKER_03 35:08

Nice work, Chris. Cool. Um no, I appreciate your comment, Peter. And uh and Chris, yeah. Um, how do they get involved in what I do? Yeah. Is what you're asking.

SPEAKER_06 35:17

Yeah, or get started in this line of business, you know, in this in this this field.

SPEAKER_03 35:21

Yeah, um, get get, I don't know, get there's a certain amount of luck involved. I happen to be able to meet the right people to get in. But I the best thing you can do is try to get um find somebody who's willing to be helpful. Um, and we often are, we can't always be. When I get young people who want to do an internship or just want to shadow us for a day, usually I'm able to accommodate it, sometimes not. But um find somebody who is willing to give a little of their time and and let the student work or at least observe and you know, see what other people do, and then eventually do a little get a little hands-on and and um it it's really it's really doing and and listening. Um and with an orchestra, uh, you know, or even a big band, it's um it's it's really great to know what you're aiming for. And for that, you have to have a really good relationship with the conductor. I've worked with John Domain since the day he took the job at so at at uh Madison Symphony. So, you know, and before that I'd worked with Stanislavskrovachevsky and I've worked with Baron Boym and I've worked with a bunch of different conductors, and you have to know what they want, um and then sh and then shoot for that in a technical way. Um because if um if you're at odds with the conductor, you're automatically wrong.

SPEAKER_07 36:54

Yeah, that's right.

SPEAKER_05 36:54

Yeah, live sound works that way too. It's perfect and nobody notices you, and then they forget you, and if it's wrong, it's your fault. Yeah.

SPEAKER_03 37:03

Yeah, there there is that kind of running joke we have in audio that people only notice the sound if they don't like it. Um, they they don't notice what they do like, although that's not really true. I've had many people say nice things about a mix I've done or something I've done. So, what is the most unusual voiceover work you've ever done? Wow. Um, well, Chris mentioned uh Smokey Bear. Um so that was um that was unusual just in the sense of its you know its uniqueness. Um you know, I've also played, you know, like cartoonish kind of characters. There I did one ad where there were talking squirrels, um, so I had to be a talking squirrel. And uh so that was easy because you just you just you just speak very articulately and then the engineer speeds it up and and and pitches it up. And if you've spoken, if you've spoken with enough articulation, you can still be understood at the higher pitch and the higher speed. So that's uh so that's that's pretty good. Um yeah, I've done, you know, I did I've done two audiobooks now, which were autobiographies, so that was weird because I was basically pretending to be the author. Um so yeah, that's weird. The one I'm reading right now is um is that way too. It's uh it's a very um a really emotional book um about this guy's tough upbringing and how he overcame it. And um and it's there's yeah, there's some wild stuff, you know, that he this poor guy had to live through growing up. Um one, I'll just tell you one story. I don't think he would mind, it's in the book. So uh, but his uh his mother um had an alcohol problem and she would berate him after she had had too much to drink. And I came up with what I thought was a really great drunk mom voice. And so I had this drunk mom voice, and there's a couple of chapters where she's in there a lot, and I had to take an almost half-hour break after reading that, sitting in the control room with the engineer just drinking tea, because I completely wrecked my voice doing the drunk mom in the office. Yeah, so so kids don't try to impersonate drunk people. It's bad for you. That's not good for your throat.

SPEAKER_06 39:25

Yeah. Uh how about the wildest gig you've ever had to do sound for? Wow. Was it yo-yo ma? Was that kind of a wild?

SPEAKER_03 39:32

Yeah, no, he's not wild. He's I mean, he's the he's the nicest guy in the world. He's the nicest guy in the world. There's there's a there's a um there's a young man years ago, he thought I had a more of a of a relationship with Yo-Yo Ma than I do. I mean, I've recorded him a few times and we know each other, but it's not like we go have beers, you know. But this young man thought, you know, he thought, you know, I want to take a lesson with Yoyo Ma. And he asked me if I would write him a recommendation letter. And I said, I I will, but I said, trust me, this is this is this is like you might as well get a recommendation letter from the custodian at Walmart because I'm gonna have no influence on this guy. And uh I wrote the letter, I gave it to the kid, he somehow got it to Yoyama, and Yoyo Ma gave him the lesson. And that kid to this day thinks I'm magic. And I said, I said, that's not me, that's him. That's him. He would have given you that lesson without anyway. You asked me a question and I completely forgot to answer it. Um Wildest gig. Wildest gig. Um there have been some, there have been some pretty crazy ones. Um I yeah, I I mean Maybe it was so crazy he can't remember. Yeah, I can't remember. It was too crazy. Um I'd I'd say, I mean, for me, the craziest gig I probably done in the last few years was about three years ago, maybe three and a half. Um, I got a call from the tour manager for a Frank Zappa tribute band. And they're a very high-functioning Frank Zappa tribute band. They actually have Frank Zappa's former drummer, Chad Wackerman, playing with them, and the the musicians in this group were amazing. And they said, you know, hey, we're doing this East Coast tour. Would you um would you be our front of house sound engineer? And I said, I said, I'm really flattered. Thank you for asking. But I said, I'm not a rock guy. I do, you know, I do orchestras and I do jazz, you know, blah, blah, blah. And they and this guy said, he said, well, we had a band meeting and to discuss it, because our usual we have a guy who normally does it, but he's not available for three weeks. Could you, could you, you know, fill in? He said, we had a meeting. Who do we want to have fill in? And the band wants you. And I said, Oh, okay, it's hard to say no to that, you know. And uh, so I went on tour with this, um, with this Frank Zappa band, and they're really nice people and they're they're really sweet, but boy, I it it soon, you know, it it didn't take long to dawn on me that touring with a rock band is something you should do when you're 25. Yeah, not when you're not when you're my age. And so, yeah, yeah. So I'd be getting to bed at you know three in the morning, and then you get up and you're on the bus and you're off to the next thing. And and uh it's it's it's like, yeah, at the end of it, I thought I uh my famous quote uh to my friend Christina was, I'm really glad I did that. I'm never doing that again.

unknown 42:23

Yep.

SPEAKER_07 42:23

Check that out. Cool.

SPEAKER_06 42:25

Awesome. Well, hey, uh this would not be complete without a speed run.

SPEAKER_02 42:29

So uh this is the topic for this. You don't don't I didn't know I didn't know about this. Yep, no thought needed. Don't no one ever does. Okay, okay, cool. All right.

SPEAKER_06 42:40

If uh if if thinking is optional, I'm gonna I'm gonna be great. Highly. Highly. Okay, here we go. And each of these I will I will note hits at different aspects of your uh person, of your um things that you do. So the first is um analog warmth or digital precision. Yes, got it.

SPEAKER_03 43:00

It's um it's it's there are there are huge uh huge advantages and very few disadvantages to either medium. Um, you know, um pick pick what you pick what you like. To me, it's like saying what's what's better, uh, a a trumpet or a tuba. You know, I mean, well, what are you trying to do? There it's it's all obvious answer to that, though, by the way. There is okay, fair enough.

SPEAKER_06 43:24

Um studio session with unlimited time or a live show with one take.

SPEAKER_03 43:30

Live show with one take. Um I love the spontaneity. I this is what I love about working with jazz groups is they will they will just they'll all get in a room and they'll play it. And if it's if it's if enough mistakes are made, they'll play it again. But they very it's very rare that they will go back and say, I'm gonna redo these three notes, I'm gonna punch in this, I'm gonna make this per oh, I was a little out of tune here. They're they're like the They're like this was the performance, you know, and uh I yeah, definitely would you rather mix for the Beatles or Duke Ellington? Oh you're killing me. Um both, both, I mean both, but but I probably I probably would pick Ellington just because my heart is kind of in in jazz, in the jazz world. Love it. Yeah. Commercial spot or animated character? Oh, animated character. I've always wanted to play one. I get I get a lot of commercial work, but doing animated characters, that would be that would be super fun. James Earl Jones or Morgan Freeman? Ooh. Um James Earl Jones, not so much because he's got the deeper voice, but because his dramatic presentation is just a little more to my liking. You know, the other person, the other person I would pick for uh dramatic narration who just nails it, it was Orson Wells.

SPEAKER_07 44:59

Really?

SPEAKER_03 44:59

Yeah, he he could yeah, yeah, he could he could nail it. Yeah, those guys are all great. But I would take I'd take Morgan Friedman too. That's uh that'd be good too.

SPEAKER_06 45:10

Um I don't know what this one means because AI came up with it, but lead climbing or bouldering?

SPEAKER_03 45:15

Um lead climbing. I I like I I don't know, do all of you know what bouldering is? It's um stirring up boulders. Yeah, no, no, it's not that um amazingly. You you climb up a few feet, three, four, five feet, and then you mainly climb horizontally. Um you don't go up high enough that you actually need a rope. If you fall, there's usually a pad beneath you, and so you can fall three feet and you're fine. Uh lead climbing or or top roping, you're climbing to the summit of something. And I I don't know why. It's probably just immaturity on my part, but I I need the thrill of actually getting to the top. You know, I want to get to the top and and feel like I did something. So um so lead climbing, yeah. Train strength or train technique? Uh technique. Um yeah, technique. Um in terms of in terms of what what a musician does, yeah. I mean, um, but yeah, I mean, but in addition to that, I know I'm cheating on this answer, but technique, but keep in mind the story, and I tell people this all the time. You're whether you're singing or playing a saxophone or playing the drums, you're basically telling a story. So try to make the story have a beginning and a middle and an end, and and and think about it as a form of communication. Alex Honald or Tommy Caldwell? Uh Tommy Caldwell, uh, and the reason is I have a lot of respect for Honald, but Honald does a lot of free solo stuff, and um, and I've never maybe Caldwell does too, but I've only seen Caldwell uh roped up. And uh a friend of mine many years ago asked me if I ever free solo, and I said no. And she said, good. She goes, You no one who loves you is ever going to ask you not to rock climb, but we are going to ask you not to die stupidly. And I think that that's something that I owe my loved ones is not to die stupidly. And when um when Honold does some of this crazy stuff, he's got a wife and kids, and I just think, dude, you owe it to people not to die stupidly. So there you go.

SPEAKER_06 47:36

Can you pound a nail with a Sure SN58?

SPEAKER_03 47:42

Um it works better than singing into a hammer.

SPEAKER_05 47:51

You can't use the Sure 58 when you're done, but you can get that nail in.

SPEAKER_03 47:54

You you almost can. You know, you almost can. The the 58, this is what they're known for, is their durability. And you will see if you look at a touring rock band, you will see SM58s where the the uh mouth, the the windscreen on it is just smashed to bit. It looks like it's been you know run over by six trucks, but um, but but it still works. Uh so I think you probably could pound a nail into wood with a 58 and it would still work, but um, but it is not recommended. I love it. And then finally, Shostakovich or Mahler? I have such love for both. Um I I would probably narrowly pick Shostakovich um for not only writing amazing music, as did Mahler, but Shostakovich, one of the things he is known for is he could write music that would basically fool the um the Soviet uh uh government into think because they because under Stalin there were these strict rules about how you know everything has to be uplifting and you know patriotic and blah, blah, blah. And and Shostakovich kind of knew how to skirt that and um get around Stalin's uh censors, and uh and so he gets extra credit for that. Extra credit. Yeah.

SPEAKER_05 49:13

Buzz, this has been great. I didn't know you before tonight, but this is amazing, and it's a great voice. I could listen to that all day long, too. Thank you so much. You guys are very kind. I appreciate it. I'm so sorry you know Chris. I forgot to add that in.

SPEAKER_03 49:28

You know, it it it's it's been it's been such a great um relationship and a lot of mutual respect. And and and uh Peter and Phil, you guys uh as well, now that I know you. Um it's just uh, you know, anybody who is putting more art, helping more art um get into the world, um it you're you're making the world a better place. So so thank you. Uh right back at you.

SPEAKER_06 49:52

Deep no, Buzz, thank you so much. You uh you are uh you're a gem, tell you, from the day I met you, you know, because you bring humanity to this work, you know what I mean? It was always about the kids. It was always about how can we get the best sound. Um it's just your touch that you put on this. It's just uh something way beyond knobs and buttons and everything else. You're a great human being. So thanks for all you do. You're very kind, thank you. Nice work, buddy.

SPEAKER_05 50:18

That's really cool. And not a tuba player. Yeah. Not a tuba player. Nope. And to have uh a career that diverse, I mean, you have to be you have to have great musical ears to work with those people and get called back to do it again. And I guess that's what I was getting at with that whole monologue there was just a lot of people know what buttons to twist, but they don't know how to make yo-yo ma sound like yo-yo ma.

SPEAKER_04 50:43

Chris, when he recorded your groups, did you did the kids get a chance to meet him? Oh, yeah. Yeah, yeah.

SPEAKER_06 50:48

You know, he came out and and talked to the kids and man, I remember it like it was yesterday. I remember that recording. I remember everything about it, and he was so kind. I mean, like I had told him, I'm like, I have no money. I'm like, I teach at a middle school, but we wanted to play at the state conference, and so really he helped to get that grouped, you know, a good authentic sound, you know. Back in, I mean, that was early 2000s. I mean, there wasn't much doctoring he was doing to it, but he knew exactly how to get a balanced sound out of a band room, you know what I mean? Where the microphones are right up on them. So I'm just like, thank you. So no, he's a great guy.

SPEAKER_05 51:26

I've had the chance to work with Doug Gueston, who's a great producer and engineer and all that for Westmark Productions and the Twin Cities, and he does live and all that stuff, and he's he's retired now, he's passed on to another great team of people, but Walton Nick and stuff. But he's even had my kids just come in and watch as we've done a three-day recording session and teaching them what they're doing. It's just I think it's really because I just don't have that. I can't right? I don't have that, but it's really cool. All right. So we have a band buzzler.

SPEAKER_04 51:56

Chris, could you maybe hire potentially mix the podcast? Maybe get rid of the sound effects or change them or get rid of Benny?

SPEAKER_08 52:07

Well, that was w what could he edit me out?

SPEAKER_04 52:12

Does our does our budget allow for that? No, it doesn't.

SPEAKER_06 52:16

I mean, I think we sold a shirt for like$15. We sold a shirt. We did. We sold one shirt. That's what we're running off of right now. So could you can't you give him a shirt?

SPEAKER_04 52:25

Maybe help us out? Anything?

SPEAKER_06 52:28

I was gonna ask him to stay beyond the notes, just so I could do that. Beyond notes than you put on the end that's not your voice. I I need I would need to pin them. Like I would feel bad if I didn't, actually.

SPEAKER_01 52:48

Exciting news, commuter, the Beyond Artless podcast was recently awarded 12th place in a global poll of decisions you might regret in 2026. Closely behind was skating lessons with Phil, Tuba lessons with Chris, and snuggling with Peter. And in even more exciting news, this week's Buzzler highlights a beautiful grade two work from the pen of a guest of this show. The devoted research team behind the band Buzzler unearthed this gem as they strive to bring a variety of grade levels, composers, and musical flavors to you, our devoted listener. Best of luck with this episode's Buzzler. Happy listening.

SPEAKER_05 54:08

There you have it. I don't know the one.

SPEAKER_04 54:12

I'm excited to learn more about it next week. I think I know that tune, but it's just that's uh on the tip of my brain. Trying to l I'm trying to lose my camera.

SPEAKER_06 54:22

Kind of a fun game. Oh, crap. Seriously, you have gotta get out of that room more often. Uh-huh.

SPEAKER_05 54:27

Buddy. Really? I don't even want to look at you. I'm gonna turn that off. You're making me want to turn that off on my uh on my Zoom. Look at it. You did a good job. I'm proud of you, Chris. You play the tuba. I do.

SPEAKER_06 54:40

Yep. That's um that's where I'm at. Okay.

SPEAKER_04 54:44

That's all we got. Boy, this is one of the finer wrap-ups we've done in quite some time. It's been a while since we talked. Yeah. It's been like almost two weeks, I think.

SPEAKER_07 54:55

Yeah. I mean a lot's happened. Happy Valentine's Day.

SPEAKER_06 55:06

Beyond Artless is sponsored by Beyond the Notes Music Festival. Our mission is to create and provide profound learning and social experiences through music that go beyond the notes. Visit BTN Musicfestival.com to learn more.