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beyond ArtLess
“Beyond ArtLess" with Chris Gleason, Peter Haberman & Phil Ostrander is a podcast that explores the friendships and the community that exists in and outside of the arts and arts education. In each episode of Beyond ArtLess, one of the hosts reveals his mystery guest to the other two. What comes next is a fun-filled conversation revealing the joy of friendship and the artlessness of the hosts. Unlike most successful classrooms, this show is not well planned and probably not worth your time.
beyond ArtLess
Tony Thomann
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Ever wonder what a true visionary in arts administration leads like? Enter our guest Tony Thomann - executive director of the Minnesota Youth Symphonies. Truly dedicated to the cause of young orchestral musicians in every way, Tony is the ultimate team builder and steady hand on a tiller.
Ever wonder what meaningless banter, fruitless band boozlers and wandering questions sound like? Enter Phil, Peter and Chris. Mustering every ounce of experience gained over the last four seasons, our hosts derail and blame each other at every turn. Commuter, we appreciate your support and occasional critique, even if we can’t really seem to respond adequately. It’s mostly Peter’s fault.
Learn More About Tony and the Minnesota Youth Symphonies Here: https://www.mnyouthsymphonies.org/
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Welcome back, commuters, to the Beyond Artless Podcast, the show where three music educators get together, turn on some microphones, and somehow convince ourselves that people need to hear what's gonna happen next. So grab your coffee, finish that drive to school, ignore the email you probably should have answered yesterday, and settle in for another episode of the podcast that proves you can take music education seriously without taking yourself too seriously.
SPEAKER_03I'd love to see you with that contract.
SPEAKER_01Welcome to Beyond Artless.
SPEAKER_03You know, camera. Second one, you're like getting back into it. So last year you wanted it to follow you around, and now you you've decided that's not a cool feature anymore.
SPEAKER_01No, it's not a cool feature. I'm over that. I do not want it to follow me. I want it to be stagnant, just like my personality.
SPEAKER_03And you figured out how this whole uh system works now after five years. So we seem to be running better today than the other.
SPEAKER_01Yes, we're running, we're running exceptionally well. Um this is uh episode two of 38. Nine. It's all downhill from here. 39? We added one? We still can't count.
SPEAKER_04What? God.
SPEAKER_01All right.
SPEAKER_03We're almost done. We're almost done. Your week going well, uh, Wisconsin maestro. Christopher, what?
SPEAKER_01Oh, that's me. I'm the Wisconsin maestro. Uh the I uh I uh yeah, no, life is good. Uh busy, super busy with uh work, and um but but taking time to smell the roses. I mean, I am uh after that deep philosophical talk by coach at our last episode, I've decided to take more time to really reflect.
SPEAKER_03And I thought I thought we'd agreed to there's a joke or something coming to be careful.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, I thought we'd agreed to to let moments like that go and just let them be a moment in time and and let them pass. Like and let it pass. Find Cold 45.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Um no, I've been spending quality time with Scott Watson and Jerry Young doing another project.
SPEAKER_03And uh uh I'm great humans.
SPEAKER_01Oh, I love those humans. It is it's been so much fun. Honestly, every day for the last two weeks, my day ended spending time with them and just listening to them answer questions. Oh, it's a beautiful thing. So yeah.
SPEAKER_02Um so and so you have approximately 250 hours of material to wear.
SPEAKER_01That's just for the first chapter. That was the first episode. The other episodes Iron Frog here. Yeah, there's a little bit of editing that's gonna happen, but yeah, God bless them. It's a great book. Studio teaching and in higher education. Uh get the book. It's it is brilliant. It's neat.
SPEAKER_02This is not to be, it's not an audio book necessarily. It's just commentary surrounding the book.
SPEAKER_03Would you say it would be faster to read it than to listen to them talk about it?
SPEAKER_01Absolutely. 100% faster. There's no there's no question it's faster if you just read the book. But but that's not it's gonna be as fun. You've got to you gotta watch them. You know, you gotta watch them. A practical guide to studio teaching higher education. Gotta get it right. GIA. There you go. Go get it. But don't read that.
SPEAKER_03The other thing is you could read the chapter, and then you could enjoy the process of watching them talk of the chapter and then, you know, alternate, then read the next chapter.
SPEAKER_02It's beautiful. Peter, I feel like you're gonna start the academic year before the rest of us. Is that true? Very true.
SPEAKER_03Um we had uh meetings started today, they're gonna go through this week. Um, this afternoon through Friday morning for me. And then we set up, and uh all the first years arrive on Sunday, and we have auditions 8 a.m. to 10 p.m. Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday next week.
SPEAKER_02So g give me one way you're gonna squeeze just one last bit out of summer before you like launch into well uh I'll tell you the hope.
SPEAKER_03The hope is this Saturday, there's literally nothing on the calendar, and I plan to shower, put my pajamas back on, something I learned in my sabbatical, and just do the art of like studying and being the music, because right now I'm just being the director of band's administrator with auditions and faculty and meetings and right. All that's fine, part of the job. But that is that's how I'm gonna squeeze one last bit out. What's really probably gonna happen is something's gonna explode in the family that I'll have to do, and or my phone will light up with Slack messages, texts, and all the other things. And I'm but uh we won't talk about that. That's fine. I'm staying with the hope that it's gonna be music.
SPEAKER_02Sounds like a good effective use of your musical time. You want to know what I'm gonna do? Oh, yeah, I do actually. Uh I'm gonna take my wife to see Spider-Man. Oh on Saturday. Good for you. I don't I don't it it it could be any day between Thursday and Sunday. And it'll be up to her. She gets to When do you start auditions? Do you start next week or do you start? I'm just not going to soon. They're all in. This is a uh speaking of never, uh, that's not a segue, but we're gonna go to a guest. Are you ready?
SPEAKER_04Okay.
SPEAKER_02Never never read it. It was a hard picture. Sorry about immediate turn. I don't know. Yeah, that's okay. You're not clinking ice cubes or glasses, so I don't really quite know what to do. There it is. All right, yeah. Yeah, it sounds like a Yahtzee change. Great. Um Our guest came in second place in their first grade spelling B. Uh missed the word calendar. Uh it's not D-E-R. Uh and there's still some deep-seated regret. Which is right. I don't I don't know. This sounds like a better use of AI. Um guest is not just an average or above average forklift driver, but basically per pro-level forklift driver. Oh, no, that's fun. This you know, uh I I would say as many or more than five years driving a forklift. Um and in fact, I knew this as uh particular guest as someone who worked uh the early shift in college before starting classes. So pretty amazing. Um Teamster. Uh that's we'll find out. There is probably a low-grade mafia connection. I'm not sure exactly what, but definitely a teamster. Keep going. So this is a family member.
unknownGot it.
SPEAKER_02Everyone's in the family. Uh our guest has been active leading nonprofit organizations for years. Our guest studied voice and music education at the Eastman School of Music. Are you familiar with that school? Never heard of that. Okay. Well, that's okay. Uh, our guest taught elementary school and has worked as a singer and actor in the Twin Cities. Uh, right now, our guest is the executive director for the Minnesota Youth Symphonies. MYS is one of the nation's premier youth orchestra education programs, and students can come uh from locally or hours away to participate in all sorts of programs on Saturdays uh here in the Twin Cities. MYS gives uh concerts at Orchestra Hall each year, trains musicians for future careers as performing, but uh just wonderful musicians. Um, I reconnected with our guest when my daughter briefly played bass in MYS. And this was just one of the secret, wonderful hidden gems about spending some time uh just listening to the NYS orchestras is when my daughter was doing it. Uh essentially, this is one of the great servant musicians uh that I know and a wonderful person and a longtime friend. This is Tony Thoman. Tony Thoman. Tony.
SPEAKER_03So did you all meet an Eastman or no? We did indeed. Oh we did indeed. I think I was a year in front of Phil as a student, but as Phil mentioned, I had been out of school for a number of years before that. So I was probably about five years older than five or six years older than Phil, but I was a year ahead of him at school. And he was right. I was a forklift driver, and you are also correct. I was a teamster. Yes.
SPEAKER_04Look at that.
SPEAKER_03I don't know if I get to keep that. I mean, I don't know, you know, if you get to, you know, port Teamster into your 50s, but uh I, you know, I was a Teamster. No, you can't.
SPEAKER_02I know this is a trend that you're encouraging everyone at MYS to follow this forklift driver into a music career.
SPEAKER_03It's one of my key to the key to high-level musicianship. I would not encourage it, but it it uh it was certainly helpful as a as a low-voice singer to have a couple extra years.
SPEAKER_01That's and I gotta say it. Your voice is stunning. It is fabulous. Oh my god. Well, thank you so much. I really appreciate that. Can you say can you say Beyond the Notes Music Festival?
SPEAKER_03Beyond the Notes Music Festival.
SPEAKER_01Don't worry, we'll send you royalties. We'll send you royalties.
SPEAKER_03I mean, I just want you to know my voiceover work doesn't come cheap.
SPEAKER_01So I was gonna say, we'll pay you. That's good. Wow. All right. So forklift, have you ever tipped over on that forklift? Carried something too heavy.
SPEAKER_03Um well, I I didn't go all the way over, but I did pick up something that brought the back wheel up. Yep. Oh, and then what were your first words? My first words when that happened? Yeah, yeah. I don't think this is the kind of podcast and I don't think I'm in a position to really speak the words that I said when that started to happen. Fair enough. I think there's a possibility that some parents of uh children in the Minnesota Youth Symphonies might listen to this. So let's just say it would not be something that I would share. Oh shoot. Oh shoot. Darn it. Wow, that is very, very heavy. Oh my goodness. Beautiful. And you worked your way through school and made that happen. So when Phil would have known me, I was what I did was I uh, you know, a lot of people did this day, at least back in the, what was it, Phil, the 90s, late 90s, it is that we, you know, I worked at UPS in the morning. So I would do the truck loading before school and then head to school. As a matter of fact, I remember it very well because I had German diction class. It was my first class, and if it was if it was close to Christmas, I got there and I was stinky, and but it was time to be at school, so I got there. Then sophomore year was harder because at Eastman, sophomore year was theory, and sophomore theory was always super early in the morning. So sophomore year was really tricky, and that was toward the end of my sophomore years when I had to pull the plug. It was just too much, it was just exhausted to get through a day of school. Right. So you let go of the UPS gig. Yep. And and I also became then an RA and I was uh resident advisor and head resident advisor for a long time at Eastman.
SPEAKER_02Yeah. Okay. For some reason or other, I'm not sure why. The the uh uh residence life staff at the dormitory at Eastman thought that Tony was responsible enough to take on that position.
SPEAKER_03He signed on that paper and they had between him and Phil, and it was an obvious choice.
SPEAKER_02That was a slam dog for Tony.
SPEAKER_03I mean, Tony, how does how does an east coaster from Eastman get back to get to Minnesota and working with MYS? Well, originally I'm actually I was uh went to high school in Illinois. I'm originally from Indiana and then moved to Illinois, went to high school at in suburban Chicagoland. Um, and my I I mean, I didn't know anything about music, and clearly, I mean, before my voice changed, it didn't sound like this. I was a soprano. Um, but once my voice changed and I went to high school, my high school voice teacher was like, You got pipes, and he's like, You probably could get into a place like Eastman, which of course I gotta be honest, as you know, coming from not really a musical family meant very little to me. I just didn't know anything about it. So right out of high school, I auditioned and and got in. But then I just couldn't afford it. It was just too expensive at the time, and so I left and was out of school for five years and went back. So re-auditioned and got right back in. So then we were out at Eastman, met my wife at Eastman, um somewhere in there, not as important, met Phil, and then um in 2000, we uh I taught for a couple years out there in Spencerport, New York, right right near Rochester. And then uh 2000, my wife decided she wanted to do her doctorate here at the University of Minnesota. So we moved here in this, what, the fall of 1999 and been here ever since. That's how how we got back to Minnesota. She's actually originally from um Minnesota, she's from a town called Hutchinson, about an hour and a half west of the Twin Cities.
SPEAKER_04Yeah, there you go.
SPEAKER_02Uh Antonio, you uh we can edit this out or you can leave it in, but I know that we share this uh as a commonality that you've had your own children in MYS, right?
SPEAKER_03Well, I mean it's it's a family affair. As a matter of fact, my wife was in MYS in the late 80s. And then yeah, both of my kids. So my older son is a junior at uh Bard College and Conservatory. He was a cellist in the Minnesota Youth Symphonies, and then my younger son um is a violist and he's a sophomore, and he's a violist, and he was in MYS uh only for a year because last year he uh entered, and I I don't want to brag about it, but let me brag about it. My my younger son goes to the Interlock and Arts Academy for high school as a violist, so he's there. Awesome. Um so can't be in NYS anymore, but that's all right. It's nice to go in here and play. It is 10 hours, it's 20 hours a day, but it's good because we keep him home. That's right.
unknownThat's right.
SPEAKER_02Uh so I mean we were busy moaning, complaining about the academic year coming up, but I mean you gotta have a pretty full um plate right now at MYS, just getting everything ready for programming.
SPEAKER_03Right. So uh you guys were talking about auditions. We do our uh biggest audition set. So we do live auditions, so we don't do video auditions. We we have everybody come in and do live auditions. We think it's a really important part of kind of what we offer. And so we do our biggest set of live auditions in kind of mid-June, right as school they're getting out for the season that's gonna start here in in September. Um, and so we probably had, I don't know, 350 kids come through for auditions over a couple of days. We have some alternate days, but we're, you know, we really, really want kids to um do a live audition because we think it's gonna be a part, if they decide to keep it music, it's gonna be a part of their lives and we want them to get that opportunity. That's absolutely right. And then over the course of, you know, July and and the beginning of August, we're doing a lot of placement and getting music set for the first trimester. And then, you know, now you're right. I mean, actually, this is kind of a lull time because we're in pretty good shape for the this um season that'll start on the 12th of September. But let me just throw out here. We always take kids. So I I don't want anybody to ever think, oh, but I I did I miss the June audition I can't ever be in, just in case somebody within the sound of my voice is like, I've always wanted to be in an orchestra. It's never too late. I mean, we we'll you know, we may not be able to squeeze in the first trimester, but there's three of them. That's why we call them trimesters. You can get into one of them.
SPEAKER_02I mean, uh not to belabor the fact, but that was one of the super attractive things uh for when my daughter did it, is that uh I I don't remember if she joined a trimester late or played in the last trimester, but there was some flexibility because if you have a kid who's an athlete, sometimes they can't do it all. And it was like uh the fact that I could even get my daughter there was a huge deal to me. Um and Tony was really, really helpful in making that happen.
SPEAKER_03I just I want to say that I I came around the corner. I had I had just kind of started my job and I came around the corner into the room we had this bass player warming up. Came around the corner, I saw her standing there, I just wanted to make sure that my staff had told me that her dad had come with her. I want to make sure that dude, you know, if he wanted some coffee or something, we had some coffee. So I came around the corner and I'm like, Do you need any coffee? He's like, No, no, no, I'm fine. And I walked away, and as I'm walking away, I'm like, that guy looks like an old Phil Ostrander. Really, really. So I went over to my I went to my staff person. I'm like, was what's that? What's that girl's name? It was Ostrander. I'm like, holy moly. That is so he didn't recognize you, but you recognized him. Tony, Tony was clean shaven. So Tony, you were clean-shaven in college. I my head was completely shaved, and I did not have a giant white beard. I did not look like Santa on vacation at that time. No, no, it looks good.
SPEAKER_02No, and it's still hard because if I don't see Tony for a couple months, I'll see him again. But I expect to see clean-shaven, slightly less young Tony. Um, and uh I I I see Tony with a beard to to end all beards.
SPEAKER_01So, Tony, I want to hop in with a question about your work uh uh with MYS. How do you balance as an executive director of this? How do you balance honoring tradition but yet looking at innovation? Like how do you balance those things? Well, that's a good question, Christopher.
SPEAKER_03You know, that's a really good question. And of course, part of um part of what I do, of course, is outside of the art, right? So we have an artistic staff, we have an artistic director, and it's really critical for those people, those conductors and folks to really be looking at how are we gonna make the art stay core to orchestral tradition, but bring in newer music, bring in experiences for kids that are outside of that. And certainly I support that by making sure that we have budgets in place for that stuff and and and really supporting that logistically when it happens. You know, what I do on my side, frankly, Chris, is more uh I optimize how we function uh as a team, as an administration, as an administrative team to make sure that we have the structures in place so we can stay focused on who I think is the most important in this, which is the parents. Because the parents make make it all happen, right? Like without the parents, you you don't get youth orchestras. So, you know, we really you know focus on making sure that we're using as much automation, as many kind of tools in that way to make it easy enough for the families to interface with us to continue things like I said, uh uh, you know, live auditions, but make it easy to get to the live audition. This is when they will be. Make sure you're flexible, make sure you have systems that aren't so rigid that it's like, uh, you know what, your audition's gonna be this time, this day, and that's it. If you can't do it, uh you know what I mean? So we're really we're working hard to make sure we have really, you know, systems that really allow both flexibility, but really cover us and make it easy for people to interface with us. That to me is really critical because if the parents can't interface well, you can't get the kid the, you know, until they're an upper high school student. The parents gotta bring them, the parents gotta take them the lesson. The parents have to do everything. So we're really working to make sure, you know, we really focus. Did we ask too many questions? Do we need to know that? Do we really want to send the parents another survey? Don't send it to them. If you don't want to know, if what you really want is to make it easy for them, make it easy for them. And so we really focus on that. That's not super interesting from an art standpoint, but from uh, you know, what we're trying to accomplish, it's really important.
SPEAKER_01Well, it's essential because you're creating the conditions for everything else to work. You know, you you have to and you're thinking in systems and big systems, and that's uh that's a challenge with everything changing too. Okay, I'll uh relinquish my time to the other two folks.
SPEAKER_03Tell me about some of your other nonprofit work before MYS executive director. Yeah. So before this, I really for the last probably, I don't know, eight years before this, I was working in um autism nonprofits. So really focused on both workforce development on folks on the autism spectrum. And then I was working on with the Minnesota Autism Center during the horrible days of COVID, really treat figuring ways how we could keep therapy going and also expand services across Minnesota. So, you know, was kind of doing that work and you know, in that work, it was really more functional. It was like just like I was talking about, it was like putting systems in place or going to start a new building in the middle of uh the pandemic or you know, that stuff. It was really that that was that that was the work. Um, but it was, I think, one of the things I've always appreciated about being in that kind of nonprofit or this kind of nonprofit. It just has a lot of meaning. And that's really that's pretty great. It's really easy to lock into to be like, you know, this is something I'm really doing good. Feels great.
SPEAKER_02So your your next your next gig is going to be basically sort of uh some some kind of uh making sure that uh you know, uh old forkless have a good home to go to.
SPEAKER_03Is that like that's really my understanding is one of the big needs. My understanding is one of the big needs in the future will be. Figuring out to do with old low brass players, really giving them opportunities. That's true. Well done, Tony.
SPEAKER_04I like you. I mean, it just was my understanding.
SPEAKER_01It's just normal. No, you're not going to get them.
SPEAKER_03Wait, Tony, did you never did you never play an instrument? I did. You know what? So I I played the piano. Um, you know, and that that was probably my second best instrument. And then uh in the band, so when I started band, they, despite the fact that I played the piano and wanted to be in percussion, in fact, my band director gave me the baritone horn. And I just want to be clear about it. I was terrible, terrible as that kind of player. And one of the reasons is I don't know if you know this, but even in in the bands that I was in in the 80s, we sat in the very back, and that was never really my spot. I really did enjoy being an opera singer because I stood in the front and the musicians sat in the hole in front of me. And that felt best. That felt really like the proper, kind of the proper thing. And I knew there was somebody also down there who kind of waved a stick around. I wasn't really sure what they were doing. I didn't really watch them. But I know I know that they there were there was a lot of activity going down there, but I really felt supported by it. That's great. That's great. Um okay. So I'm gonna uh uh I wanna so my wife is also in um at nonprofit work. She works at Dyslexia Foundation now, so a little neurodivergent thing, but has also worked at the Fargo Moorehead Symphony as a director of development and things, but started also as a flute performance and you know, all the masters and stuff. So um, and I have a lot of people now that I'm alumna. I teach back at the school I went to for my undergrad at Concordia, and I'm meeting all these alumni that left with these music education degrees or music degrees that are now working in arts administration. And so my question to you is how did you feel well prepared to do this job, leaving with a music degree? And what's something that could have been part of somebody's degree, or what skills do you need outside of that love of music to make yourself successful in this type of work? Well, I mean, Peter, I when I left school, even with a music education degree, that that stuff probably hasn't helped me a whole lot as an administrator. What's helped me a whole lot is, you know, a decade or so outside of that, in the world of of you know, kind of functional, operational, not even just nonprofits, but just in operations, right? So understanding spreadsheets, understanding budgets, understanding bylaws, all of that stuff is stuff that I I wouldn't have had, but I got through experience, right? So what I would say is a lot of people would get to this work if they got, if they went to a um music administration course or they they did some of that learning, they could have learned a lot of this stuff a long time before me, right? Um, what I felt when I saw that the position was open and just having some understanding of what was going on was I thought that I could bring in some of the stability and kind of management practices I've learned over the decades to kind of create stability in the staff, which would then facilitate the stuff I was talking to Chris about, having more functional teams, have you know what I mean? Like having a functional team is beneficial wherever you work. Period. And so um having a, you know, creating a beneficial team in in a in a in a space like uh Minnesota Youth Symphonies is is really been is really good, right? Like it helps everything. It makes everything a little bit easier. And when everything's a little bit easier for us, it's easier for the parents, it gets easier for the kids, it gets easier for the artistic staff. Everything's easier when the person you asked to do something can just make it happen because they're not new, they're not confused, they're not, you know, like where do I function? Am I gonna do something wrong? Like we don't have any of that because we all work together. We're we're all together on a team. So kind of just basics of good management, good supervision, good leadership, those things are really functional. Um, and I got those just through years of time. I mean, even with courses, and uh sorry, I have an ulterior motive here. We're actually thinking we have a music business degree and we're trying to make some tracks, so maybe more music production, but then also like uh entrepreneurship side, so a composer or a performer learning how to do their own marketing and sell t-shirts and make money. And then um also an arts administration side, because there's so many alumni in arts administration, and I'm just trying to think about they've said the same thing, but they're like, But it would have been nice to have some sort of grant writing experience or know at least the basics of those things as they go out. So um, and I'm all on board. I think this is great. I think people recognize sometimes as an undergrad that they love singing, they want to be a singer, but they realize that the world is not gonna need them as a singer. And if we could find some ways to help them continue to stay in the world of arts, I think that's great. Yeah, I think for that you're right, like a grant writing course, super helpful. Um but you know, experience a real simple one. Uh what a real simple one, one of the best classes I ever took was a random supervisor class. Just thinking about supervising people, if you go into arts management, you're gonna be managing humans. So you have to supervise them, and they're gonna do stuff like coming in late, they're gonna get sick, they're gonna have, you know, conflicting interests with other people that they work with, and having some understanding of how to be a supervisor of people, how to manage those things, and that's outside of and beginning to understand what's the difference between managing people and leading people. It's not always the same, right? And just having some of those that knowledge that I picked up through courses and learning and mistakes, right? Like you people are pretty smart. If you gave them that knowledge before they started, they probably could get to it faster than waiting as long as I did.
SPEAKER_02Uh Tony, I think you're selling yourself short a little bit because I mean, from the age, well, probably before I met you, seems like you've either been fairly high up in a team sort of structure, uh, whether that be in business or not, um, or at least or a team leader from about age 25 on. I don't think you've ever not been a team leader since you were about 25 years old.
SPEAKER_03I mean, there's no question I'm pushy. So But there's a lot, there's you know, there's a lot of difference between saying follow me and then actually turning around and seeing people there as opposed to walking off by yourself, right? And so like there was always a person willing to walk out in front, but uh unfortunately, too often, you know, until you learn how to do it, people aren't actually behind you. They just they're just like, look at that person walking away.
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SPEAKER_03Can't get enough of me? Not sick of me yet? Come get your master's degree in music education with me at Concordia College in Moorhead, Minnesota. We offer a hybrid degree plan so you can keep teaching and getting paid and still have an in-person cohort in the summers to enrich your experience and learn a lot from others as well. Already have your masters? Prank your less educated colleagues by sending them my way. You got students? Ship those beautiful children off to Moorhead. We want your music majors, your non-majors, good kids, bad kids, smart kids, and everything in between. Music scholarships here are available for all students with an annual deadline of February 1st. Info about all these options and more can be found at Concordiacollege.edu slash music. That's Concordiacollege.edu slash music. Or just contact me and I'll take care of it.
SPEAKER_02Without getting like uh too specific, I mean, uh you were touched on this earlier about barriers when you first started at MIS. Um other than dealing with parents, were there other barriers too that you just you know in general had to sort of like um get through?
SPEAKER_03Um of any sort? You know, a coup uh yeah, I I I mean I don't think anything un you know un unsurprising. Um one, uh you know, I started in 2022, so it was only just about a year and a half out of COVID, right? And so, you know, that impacted, you all know this best, how that impacted any kind of ensemble work was astonishing. I wasn't there for that. Um, but they had had an artistic leadership change. So Mark Mondorano, who's our current artistic director, he's um he started just a few months before me, and they had been without an executive director for about seven months when I started. And so, you know, just coming in, you know, it's really unsettling for people who are trying to work, right? So everybody who's at Minnesota Youth Symphonies is attached to music. Like I everybody who works at NYS has a music degree, right? All of these people love music, and most of them are much more accomplished musicians and instrumentalists than I will ever or ever could have been. But what they didn't have is somebody saying, you know, we're gonna be all right, everybody. Let's just settle in here and let's just get walking, let's just get moving and and kind of working together as a team and trying to enjoy each other in the work that we're doing. So I think probably that was the the biggest challenge was just it had been a little unsettled and it just needed some, all right, all right, let's let's go get it.
SPEAKER_01See, I know of a nonprofit that really could use that. It's called Beyond the Never.
SPEAKER_03Could we ever uh You were thinking about teams earlier, and I was thinking about, you know, I had to leave Eau Claire because the team there, I mean, this I had to work with the team, and I was like, this isn't gonna get any better.
SPEAKER_01That's true. I mean, you gotta have people that know people, that know systems, that know, I mean, like the fundraising part of the nonprofit world and the budgets, and just like it's an immense amount of work. So, Tony, I'm how many, can I just ask? And I apologize for not knowing this, but how many, roughly, how many student musicians uh are involved in MYS?
SPEAKER_03Well, throughout the course of a year, it's close to about 400. Um uh, I think in our core program, so we have what we call our kind of seasonal programs. We have five ensembles. We have a wind orchestra, which is a beginning orchestra for we try to keep pretty small for kind of kids who are looking to start their orchestral journey on winds and brass instruments. Then we have a small string orchestra, which is where we put our, you know, the people who are just kind of moving past their first steps in in string and want to get a little bit more advanced. Um, and then we have three full orchestras, our philharmonic orchestra, our repertory orchestra, and our symphony orchestra. So those are, you know, kind of the range. They're all auditioned orchestras. And then we have a summer program where we'll have um we have a string camp for kids to, you know, for younger kids, it's this is one of those ones where it's their very first time with an orchestra. And then we also have just started um a classical music symphony. So Mark started this um last summer, and then we um sorry, two summers ago, and we've now done a tote. So we did a Haydn symphony for a week, and then the like Beethoven's second symphony. So it's some of these works that are kind of hard to pull off with with a large youth symphony where we you gotta it's a little bit tighter group, a smaller group, so an opportunity to do that. Is that what we do in the symphonic orchestra or the symphony orchestra that you take players from within, or is it just extra? It's it's two groups. So we'll take um players from the repertory or the symphony orchestra, which are top two groups, to play in that. And then if if we don't fill up the sections with those groups, then then kids from outside can kind of climb onto that. But we do ask them to play for us just to make sure because what we don't want is you know, we're gonna go for four and a half days, and if playing the violin part in that Hyden Symphony is gonna be past you, we don't want to put you next to somebody who's you're just it's gonna make you feel bad. We don't want you, we want you to feel successful, not like you can't keep up. Okay, Tony. No names, funniest story from the NYS. Uh kid throwing their violin out the window. Like what what what's the funniest thing that's happened? Or maybe to a conductor, but no names, no names. Just want to hear the humor. And I want to be careful of my conductors because I I really, really like all of them. I think probably the thing that is continually funny is, you know, so the kids who play in our symphony orchestra, especially our our string players, in particular our violin players, many of them have been playing for over a decade, right? I mean, these kids are very, very fine players. They're playing very difficult rep. They're very good players. Um, but they will have strings break or their or their bridge slip on their instrument, right?
SPEAKER_04Sure.
SPEAKER_03And when it happens, of course, they're just shattered. They're like, oh no, oh no, no, no, right. Because I don't I mean, I don't know if you've ever noticed this, but violinists can be kind of A-type personalities that can maybe get really worked up a little bit. I don't know if you've ever would you agree with that, Phil?
SPEAKER_04Yes.
SPEAKER_03No, our our house is a bastion of relaxation. Yeah, I'm sure. I'm sure. Yes, I'm sure. So anyway, so they will come to, they'll come outside in the lobby where we are, and they'll say, What what do I even do? What do I do with this? Right. And I'll be like, it's no problem, just give it here, I'll just put it back on. And that moment where, you know, they know Tony, they know he's the executive director, right? But they're about to hand me their instrument, and it just and all of a sudden in their eyes, I can see the fact that they remember I was a singer. Yeah, yeah. That doesn't seem like you mean the guy who drives the percussion truck every day is gonna put my bridge back on on my violin. Like it really is very difficult. And then I put the bridge back on, and of course, you know, the bridge has scuffed the instrument a little bit. There's a little mark where the bridge has. So if you don't put it on quite right, you could see that scuff mark. And so I a number of times. It's not just happened once, where I have put a bridge back on, start tightened the strings again, and they've looked down and seeing that little mark, they're like, oh my gosh, my parents are gonna kill me. There's a scuff mark. That's been my it's been my real highlight. I I just love the look of the violinists in their eyes when they're like, this person is completely unqualified to put this piece of wood back together. I'm gonna be in so much trouble because I gave my violin to Tony and now it's all my yeah. You know, and then for the rest of the day, I'll be like, how's it working? Well, I think it's okay. Yeah, it's okay, right? Yeah. All right. It's beautiful.
SPEAKER_02I love that. Tony, I I know you have like a part of your leadership style and part of your sort of team development strategy is to I think you dream big a bit at times. Um how would you relate those big dreams to MYS? I mean, are there things you see you're see the group growing and like where where do you want to go next with it?
SPEAKER_03Well, I mean, two two things. One, I do have a big dream, but my big dream is so titanic that I just keep working away at it. And my big dream is that, you know, what we do at MYS and what I would say all of you have a part of, and you know, all you symphonies have part of is in fact we are creating the future of orchestral music every day. We're creating the future of orchestral music, whether it be future players, parents of future orchestra players or future orchestra audience members. That's all that's all we're doing. And without groups like us, the the story of orchestral music is thinner, right? So when I find out that the kids, you know, one of the kids, some of the kids went to see the Minnesota Orchestra because they have started an orchestra, and that's just something now that their family does. That's the future of orchestral music. Now, will we have players who eventually play in orchestras? Yeah, we will. But those aren't the most important ones. Like my wife met her at Eastman, but she was a singer, she played cello, she's now a software engineer. But both of our children play in the orchestra now, right? So they created the future of orchestral music, and it took decades. So when I'm talking about a big dream, the future of the orchestral music that I'm thinking about is one where I'm not in, I'm not with NYS anymore. I'm well retired, but it grows, not because necessarily NYS grows, but because this thing where kids involve themselves in orchestra, that continues and it's really important. So that's that's one big dream. But for my specifically for my own group, I'd love to have a five million dollar endowment so no kid would have to pay tuition to be in a in a youth orchestra. It's it's sad to me that we have to charge tuition, but can't pay for anything if I don't have some money, right? So as we say in nonprofit administration, money is the mission, and the mission needs money. That's just how it is. I wish it weren't, but it is. And so to get to this point where we could have a world where you know you would need an endowment that's big enough where you on the endowment you could pay kids tuition, right? So that's you know, like we know schools that do it. Curtis does it, Colburn does it, Juilliard wants to do it, right? These are big institutions, important institutions that want this to occur, right? And I would just love to see that. Now, will I see it? I don't know. Yes, you will. You're teaching Chris a lot. He's really paying attention here on this uh arts administration side.
SPEAKER_02He's true, right? That's a baloney. He's been looking at pictures of forklifts ever since Tony got on.
SPEAKER_01My only mission was to spend money. Gotta keep it you gotta make money. Money's the mission, please. And money's the mission. I I I put meat was the mission. It was all about meat.
SPEAKER_03Um Tony. Well, I mean, you can do meat raffles, and by the way, don't underestimate a meat raffle. And I once heard from a very wise fundraiser that said, before you do a fun run, do a bake sale. That's the way you make some cash.
SPEAKER_01That's how you make some cash. Listen to this. I'm gonna consult with you.
SPEAKER_03Tony, it's a lot of bake sales to get to five million dollars, just saying this is a lot of bake sales. I that that part I understand, but maybe it'd be a good idea.
SPEAKER_01Money and Tony getting there, though. Uh Tony, I love because everything I hear you saying is really based on equity. It's all about access, it's all about pulling down barriers and making this more available. What what, you know, we're talking systems. What systems are already there to help broaden that net, to cast the net a little farther, to bring more people in with our organizations.
SPEAKER_03I mean for me and for us, you know, at NYS, I mean very specifically, but I know that I I don't speak solely. I I mean I know that there are many organizations, at least in the Twin Cities, that see the same. Like we don't require if somebody can't pay, but their kid wants to be in, they're in. So, you know, but because of that, then we have to be honest about the fact that then some people actually, if you can pay, you have to, even if your kid's the very best one. So we can't, unfortunately, we can't do merit because we need to have the family who, you know, this year can't, they just can't afford it. But their child wants to be an orchestra that we let them in. They come in. Um, and then the hope is maybe two years down the road, they're fine and they can pay. And maybe they'll they'll do a donation, but like that's that's how we have to do it. We have to build a community that will support it because they'll support it. And and I know, you know, there's a local um teaching studio called Walker West. It's a musical academy here in in the Twin Cities. They have the same philosophy. If a kid wants to play an instrument, get in the instrument, the the money will either come or it won't. But you you you have to you have to do that, or you're not gonna. Doing your mission, right? Like so that's that's what we do. We I think last year we deferred fifty-nine, fifty-eight thousand dollars worth of tuition.
SPEAKER_01So if folks wanted to give to the cause and the organization, how would they do that?
SPEAKER_03They go to Beyond the Notes Festival.
SPEAKER_01Not for us. We are flush with cash.
SPEAKER_03I mean, I I I just know every single one of us got into music going, I man, I am just gonna be rich, rich, rich. I I tell everybody who's in this business, uh, and then this is Peter, you could share this with people. If they did if they want to do something for money, they should go into like commercial real estate. I hear it's fantastic, but if they want to do something for art, arts administration is good, but they should not mistake one for the other. So anyway, it you know, for us, people can go to our website, mnusymphonies.org, and you know, there's always a way to donate there. We uh are actively engaged in um uh Give to the Max Day here in Minnesota, right? I mean, there are always ways to give. I I think more importantly, what I would ask is, you know, if folks are like, you know what, I wanted to give to the Minnesota Orchestra, maybe look out there and just cast a little bit wider net. I'm not saying give it to me, but look up maybe a little bit further upstream, right? I'm not gonna turn away your cash, but just look upstream a little bit. Where did those people come from? How could you help orchestral music maybe a little bit further upstream? So does your local PTO support their band? Do you have band boosters? Do you have orchestra boosters? You know, like again, uh if all of us are doing a little bit better, all of us will be a little bit better off. So, Tony, uh how do you define success as an arts administrator? Um I I mean, one thing is that you're uh you make slightly more money than PSB. Wait, we just had this conversation about making the money in the uh little I mean but that's arts administration, right? Like um on the other side. Well, if you can, keep the lights on, keep the mission going. Um and then grow it if you can, right? But like but understand what you're trying to grow, right? So from a nonprofit standpoint, you gotta be careful of mission creep, right? What do you do? Does it fit in with what you do? You know, are are are you okay with you know the ups and downs of what's going on? And and so from an ad, you know, what's a successful thing, that's that's about it. Are you on mission? Chris Gleason about mission creep.
SPEAKER_01Can you define mission creep for Chris? I have identified both Peter and Phil as mission creep.
SPEAKER_03And so I I think you you're talking mission creep, not mission creep. Creepy. You put the S on it, yeah. When you put the S on the creep, then then all of a sudden it's it's it's bad. So I mean that that could be something. But taking no mission, I mean, you are you joking around with me? No, I'm joking around. Chris Chris is so creative. Our first answer, he's like, I've got an idea. The first thing we always say is no. We just hands down say no until he starts to convince us, and then sometimes we encourage, but usually we just say no. He's done it already anyway. But you know, one time he made us a business card and didn't have any contact information on it. He forgot to get that on the card, but it looked really cool. Cutting edge. It looked really cutting edge. Well, I don't highly recommend bleeding. Highly recommend for all nonprofits. Highly recommend creating what's called a logic model. So logic models really, really show you if you're creeping. So I really, really recommend it. Speaking of creeps, do you know Paul Kyle? No. The name is familiar, but it's not. I I'm not sure. Okay, that's it. It's a board.
SPEAKER_02Forget about it. It's fine. Um Tony, uh uh really the reason we've invited you here today uh is for a speed round. And I think you can guess what today's speed round is going to be about. It's gonna be a big uh forklifts. It's gotta be about forklifts. I've done this before. Really? Unencumbered by the thought process. Just answer the first thing that comes into your mind. Do forklifts have a suspension system? Yeah. Look at this. That's right. The tires and the chassis absorb bumps. That was easy. We're gonna get harder now. Uh when was the forklift invented? I can give you choices if you want. Please. All right. 1905, 1915, 1917, and 1923. 15? I'll give it five. 1917. That's right. Yes. It was it was called the truck tractor, um, made by the Clark Equipment Company. Very important information. It's gonna help you in your uh uh with all things that we're gonna do. Yeah. Um how long uh were the earliest forklifts designed to last, the batteries in these early forklifts?
SPEAKER_03Oh boy. Man, oh man, those were big dog things, the electric ones. I don't know. Three hours?
SPEAKER_02Uh one shift, eight hours. Oh exactly. Okay, one shi one shift. Uh are forklifts rear or front wheel drive? Front sure. Not really. Rear. Um, no, no, no.
SPEAKER_03But the power in the front. I don't know. So he's right. Um Phil doesn't know what we're talking about. Um the power is in the front wheels and you steer the back wheel. That's okay. Yes.
SPEAKER_04Yeah. Okay.
SPEAKER_03Um we'll add that later.
SPEAKER_02What are arachnid, are forklifts designed after? What a rachnid forklifts? Arachnid. I'm sorry. They're designed after spiders. They're designed after spiders. How are they different?
SPEAKER_03Probably should have been arachnid. I don't really think.
SPEAKER_02Um these questions are getting better. Can you feel it? Um, this is going really well. Um name something that's on the forklift driving test. Name something that's on the test. Anything that's on the forklift driving test.
SPEAKER_01I don't think Tony took a test. I don't think I did I think they said get in there.
SPEAKER_02That's right. Um is don't hurt yourself or others. Okay. Um next, uh are our forklift rodeos.
SPEAKER_03So sorry about this, Tony.
SPEAKER_02Are forklift rodeos real?
SPEAKER_03It seems like they must be, though I think they have to be.
SPEAKER_02Worth a Google. I I highly recommend a Google on uh forklift rodeo. Okay, highly, highly recommend it. Uh and then final question here. This is it, uh, and there's no wrong answer. Who looks more like a forklift, Peter or Chris?
SPEAKER_03Who looks more like a forklift, Peter or Chris? Well, it's tricky because, you know, Peter's got the glasses going on, so that does remind me of some of the, you know, kind of the specs that I saw. On the other hand, just because of clarity, I can really see Chris's earphones. And those earphones do have that kind of look of the kind of the cage over the top that keeps you safe. So I I'm probably gonna say Chris, but I I mean it's not hurt. I'm not hurt at all. It's very, very close.
SPEAKER_02That's it. Uh highly suspect questions, but Tony, you passed the uh forklift test. Oh, thank you so very much. Well done. Man, that's uh That was worth your time. I think so. I'm so sorry.
SPEAKER_03Uh Did you call Phil a friend or an acquaintance? How would you define your relationship? You know what? I used to be one and maybe moving toward the other. I like forklift questions.
SPEAKER_02Uh well, I get all my sort of speed round questions. I designed them after Chris's uh speed rounds.
unknownYeah.
SPEAKER_03Tony, it's great to meet you. I do have to tell you, um, it's not just the voice, but when you speak your uh philosophy and passion about what you do or why you do what you're doing, as well as if I were a parent and I heard this conversation, or even a teacher that could encourage kids, I feel like the team is in a good place with you driving the forklift. And that's uh that's a real uh that's a real gift. And we're pretty leadership sad right now in this country in lots of ways. And just to know that that organization has you at the front of it on the executive side is really wonderful. So great to meet you and thanks for all you two for everyone. Yeah, thank you. You got uh you got some of our kids coming your way this this year. We got one of our we got a really good, really good percussionist from last year coming up toward you guys. Yeah, Ethan. Very excited. Yeah, he's a good player. We really he was he did he played the bass drum so beautifully on we did the Romeo Juliet overture, fantasy overture, and he was on the bass drum, and there's really only three percussion parts in that, but that bass drum is so important. He did it beautifully. He was a great addition to the team. I yeah, I wish that we'd have had him for longer. We only had him for a year. You are lucky to get him. He is a delight.
SPEAKER_01Yeah. Is that the Jack stamp arrangement? Oh dear lord. Very useless.
SPEAKER_03Uh I don't I don't even I don't even know. Not worth not worth.
SPEAKER_04Not not at all.
SPEAKER_03Is this like a a weird band thing that I don't understand? A little bit. It's uh it's not even inside baseball, it's wrong baseball.
SPEAKER_02Um Tony, thanks for doing this. And um, you know, I'm I'll reiterate something you said earlier on is that uh uh I think sometimes band directors or parents or even students are like, oh, it's I miss the auditions, I can't do it. But I I can say from firsthand experience that you know you have auditions all the time. And you're gonna find a way to get a kid in the experience that's appropriate to where they are uh and get them playing in a hurry. So uh I just can't advocate for enough for what NYS does and for what you do for the organization. Thanks for talking about it. Thanks for having me, guys. Nice work, Phil Tony. I really like it. That was great. He's great. He's a good guy. Um fabulous uh music advocate and leader. You know, just a great guy. And I've known him forever.
SPEAKER_01You can tell. He's got a vision, he knows how stuff works too. Articulate, love it. Yeah. And I'm telling, he says something, I would just believe it. That voice is unbelievable.
SPEAKER_03If he said it, I'd believe it beyond the notes music festival. Well, honestly.
SPEAKER_01I'm just like, yep, okay.
SPEAKER_02Yeah, he's got pipes. Tony's got pipes for sure.
SPEAKER_03The mission is money, Gleason. Remember this. The mission.
SPEAKER_01Yeah, I wrote down a lot of stuff. Like, and I realize I'm doing a lot of stuff wrong. So that's uh that's good.
SPEAKER_02That was great. I'm I mean, Tony was super patient and like a great friend to all these sort of 18 and 19-year-old boneheads um uh uh undergrad. Tony was a lot further along. And he just had an appreciation for what a luxury college is, let alone a place like Eastman. Tony just came at it a little differently than the rest of us and a lot more mature than the rest of us. Aaron Powell, of course.
SPEAKER_03I mean, that four or five years that that's a lot of four or five years of life.
SPEAKER_02I mean, the fact that we made it through the whole podcast and he really didn't tell many of the embarrassing stories about me uh shows you what a stand-up guy is. That's right. He didn't even bring it up, which is pretty impressive. Aaron Ross Powell No. No, didn't at all. He's got he's got some ammunition on me.
SPEAKER_03We didn't bring it up, actually. That's kind of our fault, I think, a little bit.
SPEAKER_01It's okay. We're just gonna let it. You know, I'm sorry. Yeah, okay. Gotta warm up to it. It's a long season. Hey, uh, you ready for another boozler? It's a back-to-back boozler.
SPEAKER_03Bamboozler. Bamboozler. I don't need to be able to do it. And you know why, but yes, why?
SPEAKER_01Because I do not have anything else prepared. But we did get a uh a letter in the mail. Uh, this was handwritten, and it says, Dear gentlemen, one of my uh strongest students has a parent who is a musician. The parent is incredibly supportive, but also sends the student to school with a steady stream of suggestions about my teaching, repertoire choices, and other things about my teaching. The student is doing great, so technically there's not a problem there, but do I say something to the parent?
SPEAKER_02I think all three of us are that parent. I was dangerous. I hope this is not Pam Riddlinger.
SPEAKER_03Because if this is Pam Ridlinger, no, no. Um they all come from my daughter, not from me. She tells us she tells Pam all the pieces that she hears in from me that they should do, which is a bare a bit embarrassing. Um I mean, there's nothing you can do about that except say, oh, thank I'll think about that. Thank you. That's great. And then you move along. You know your students best and what they're able to do. But um, Pam, I'm sorry if that's what uh it sounds like from Claire, because that's not coming from me.
SPEAKER_02Every time I see my son's band director, I say the same thing. I look at him and I I I sort of fight the urge to hug him and and tell him, thank you for creating this opportunity for my child to play. He would break you in half if you I know he would. But uh I'm just so wildly grateful. Um and uh uh I'm I I am uh pretty cautious about offering any commentary past thank you.
SPEAKER_03I mean the cool thing about being a music parent is that you with piano, for instance, with my daughter, I just I can't say anything, right? But when teacher Karen says something, we'll do it. And so I am so in awe of the non-parent adult that's guiding my student through experiences, my daughter, through experiences in music, and giving her those opportunities. She does like doing bands with me, like she comes out to the Montana every year and really enjoys that experience. Not so much because I'm her band director, but that we have fun with music together. I think she does enjoy that. But um, I mean, I can't I look at her to give her a suggestion as a musician, and she's already rolling her eyes in the back of her head in my ensemble, and I'm like, uh, it's not so I think I am all in support of the band directress and would never give suggestions.
SPEAKER_02When what one way of handling that potentially might be uh finding a mission for uh each and every parent of a kid in your band is really important. And each set of parents has a different gift. Um, where I I think if Tark asked me if I want to be involved, I'd probably say something like, sure, do you need me to sit there during the bake sale? That'd probably be a really good thing for me to do. Um and it keeps me um uh away from the front line where I I'm not sure that my own child would really appreciate having me there. Um uh and it keeps me involved in the program and supporting on a sideline. So in in so in a nutshell, is find the right mission for each parent in your band that really wants to be involved, whether that be fundraising or um organizational aspects or whatever it is. Um each parent has a different gift, and sometimes we need to be more active in steering those gifts. Yeah. Amen.
SPEAKER_03That's very well said, Philip. Wow, that was very mature of you. Adult, thoughtful.
SPEAKER_00I'm getting bored, hey.
SPEAKER_01You're good at that. Uh gentlemen, we're gonna end today with a new uh wrap-up. It's called an exit ticket. Just like many great educators will do, they'll end class with an exit ticket. And so today's exit ticket is this question. If today's episode were a band rehearsal, what would we need to fix before the concert? Uh all of it. Wait, can you say that again one more time? So I can Beyond Artless is sponsored by Beyond the Notes Music Festival. Our mission is to create and provide profound learning and social experiences through music that go beyond the notes. Visit BTN Musicfestival.com to learn more.
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